Weekly spoiler

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Danno
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Re: Weekly spoiler

Post by Danno » Feb 16th, 2019, 2:21 pm

This week's spoiler is... map updates!
2019-02-16 map changes.png
2019-02-16 map changes.png (398.26 KiB) Viewed 8522 times
I've been spending a lot of time creating new maps and updating old ones. These are the highlights:

1. Wall height - Most of the old buildings were excessively tall, so I decided to tone them down a bit. It is now standard for them to be 2 wall tiles high rather than 3 wall tiles high. The shorter buildings also make it a little easier to see pathways and such that were previously covered by tall houses.

2. Windows - Added more windows indoors.

3. Signposts - Moved signposts away from warp points. Before, it was too easy to accidentally walk into the warp point when you're just trying to get close to the sign.

4. Back doors for shops - It was sorta awkward how shopkeepers, in theory, would have to climb over their counter to get in/out of their building. Back doors have been added to make the world a little more logical.

5. Pathways - I'm aiming to finish all the pathways and connect the island together a bit more.
"I'll do the art." ~Danno 2014

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Re: Weekly spoiler

Post by Sholto » Feb 16th, 2019, 11:13 pm

Love the changes! My only critique would be the new fences, however. I like them visually, but if the idea is to have a functioning and realistic garden fence (since you’re also going for realism with the shopkeeper doors) then the focus would be more on pest control rather than aesthetic value. An actual farm/garden should have a fence and gate that excludes pests, mainly small rodents, whereas this new one seems to have holes big enough for the smaller variety of rodents (bunnies, mice, etc.). Not necessarily a big thing, but the farmer in me had to point it out.
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Re: Weekly spoiler

Post by Putin » Feb 17th, 2019, 12:01 am

Thanks for the update Danno, great to see that you are giving so much attention to detail. My honest 2 cents though, ignore if you are already working on them:

1. The interiors look amazing already. Can't think of anything that would further improve them (except that the outgoing tile doesn't match floor tiles, but that's a coding issue I think).

2. The grass tile looks rather plain. Idk how to change that. Maybe a more zoomed-in look, like the grass in EO at respawn point.

3. The road tiles are pretty well-detailed but look plain at first glance. The color for the cracks and that for the road look too similar. Or maybe because of my eyesight. You might want to get opinion of more people on this one to be sure.

4. More of a mapping issue, but the flowers look a bit cluttery. This is a pretty subjective opinion though.

Anyway, the game looks great as it is. Don't overburden yourself. Cheers!
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Re: Weekly spoiler

Post by Danno » Feb 17th, 2019, 2:18 am

In response to that:

1. I think the interiors are lacking the most, actually. The beige walls are very plain and don't have enough decoration options (such as framed paintings, cracks, weapons hung up on racks, etc.). I intend to make better interior wall tiles at some point.
As for the door/exit tiles, I meant to do something better at some point, but I haven't been able to decide what to do. I like having the exit tile bump out to make it really obvious. The exit tile should represent "outside", so I feel like it wouldn't be appropriate for it to be the same as the indoor tiles. I was considering making light come from the exit (leaving the exit tile non-specific), just haven't gotten around to experimenting with it yet, I suppose. It'd be something similar to the cave exits, it's just a little trickier to make that work nicely with building interiors.

2. I don't recall anything special about EO's grass. Wasn't it also pretty generic? But yeah, my grass does get pretty boring after seeing so much of it. I'll have to work on some more obvious variation or something.

3. Indeed, there might not be enough contrast on the road tiles. I probably tend to lack contrast for many things. Those hard/cracked dirt roads weren't even really meant to be used for roads like this, I just haven't gotten around to making proper pavement tiles.

4. The excessive flowers and such are my way of keeping the grass from looking too plain, I suppose. Here's a look at a map with the flowers and general debris removed:
sans flowers.png
sans flowers.png (330.36 KiB) Viewed 8510 times
Here's another one with flowers and some other garbage removed:
sans rubbish.png
sans rubbish.png (302.32 KiB) Viewed 8510 times
Anyway, I think they brighten up the maps a bit and make them look less plain. As I make more graphics to fill in these big, plain fields, perhaps flowers will be used a little less, though.
"I'll do the art." ~Danno 2014

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Re: Weekly spoiler

Post by Errors » Feb 17th, 2019, 3:55 am

Well, to me I would expect flowers to grow less in dim lit forest. Perhaps more mushrooms and weeds type tall grass? You can use different color mushrooms like..the Cortinarius violaceus, or Indigo milk cap, and obvious red ones but maybe bigger like Amanita muscaria. Also dont forget edible plants like Squash, there are atleast 5 types of squash that grow in dense forest floors, along with pumpkins which are the Cucurbita ficifolia, there are lots you could use ;> (yes i googled the hell out of those names but i did know they exist lmao)
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Re: Weekly spoiler

Post by Danno » Feb 17th, 2019, 10:21 am

o, it looks like I just happened to pick out a screenshot from basically the only dark forest with flowers. Normally, there hasn't been flowers in the dark forests (such as Calm Woods), though I don't see the harm in sprinkling a few here and there. But yeah, making more kinds of mushrooms (for forests) was actually one of my next priorities. There's just always so much to do that I often neglect creating new tiles/decorations. )-::
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Re: Weekly spoiler

Post by Putin » Feb 17th, 2019, 1:24 pm

By EO grass, I meant like this. It somehow looks more natural. Idk why though.
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Re: Weekly spoiler

Post by Danno » Feb 23rd, 2019, 5:38 pm

I'll aim to improve as we go along. The brighter green grass in particular is one of the oldest things I made, so it's kinda lacking a bit. Well, it gets the job done for now, anyway.


This week's spoiler is... Nothing much? We just released v5 and it has all my latest work in it. Here's a closer look at the alpha birbek, which is new to this version:
2019-02-18 alpha birbek walk.gif
2019-02-18 alpha birbek walk.gif (11.08 KiB) Viewed 8427 times
It doesn't move continuously in-game, so a lot of my work goes unnoticed, unfortunately. I spend a ton of time detailing the feathers and crap to make the animation look nice. Well, maybe one day, monsters will be capable of moving more than 1 tile at a time.

This monster took nearly 10 and a half hours (!!!) to make. I was hoping I'd get faster at this as I went along, but that's a new record for slowness! I suppose it couldn't be avoided with the detail put into each feather, though.
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Re: Weekly spoiler

Post by Danno » Mar 3rd, 2019, 12:01 pm

Nothing to spoil this week )-:

I've mostly just been working on plans for game mechanics, including things related to dungeons, classes, weapons, skills, and status ailments. There isn't much to say about any of it since none of it is final yet. Aside from that, I just barely got started drawing a new title screen. When it's ready, I intend to make some more maps and get Abi to patch them in together.
"I'll do the art." ~Danno 2014

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unit
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Re: Weekly spoiler

Post by unit » Mar 4th, 2019, 12:43 am

Danno wrote: Nothing to spoil this week )-:

I've mostly just been working on plans for game mechanics, including things related to dungeons, classes, weapons, skills, and status ailments. There isn't much to say about any of it since none of it is final yet. Aside from that, I just barely got started drawing a new title screen. When it's ready, I intend to make some more maps and get Abi to patch them in together.
you keep up the good work mate!

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Re: Weekly spoiler

Post by Danno » Mar 10th, 2019, 1:43 pm

Well, I finished the new title screen I mentioned before, so here it is in low resolution!
2019-03-10 title screen.jpg
2019-03-10 title screen.jpg (86.55 KiB) Viewed 8298 times
I'm working on some new maps to complete all the existing pathways. Nothing particularly exciting, it'll just connect the world together a bit more (allowing players to choose between multiple pathways to end up at the same destination) and/or give people more options for grinding spots (using the existing monsters, nothing new).

Anyway, as I mentioned before, I'll send the new title screen over to Abi after I'm done with the maps.
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Re: Weekly spoiler

Post by unit » Mar 11th, 2019, 2:18 am

the real spoiler this week is swords, ignore dannos spoiler.
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Re: Weekly spoiler

Post by Danno » Mar 16th, 2019, 1:07 pm

unit wrote:
Mar 11th, 2019, 2:18 am
the real spoiler this week is swords, ignore dannos spoiler.
o pls
I have been doing some weapon planning lately, though. I do hope for it to be one of our next big things.

This week's spoiler is... some new maps I made.
2019-03-16 NE Seashore.png
This deadend path from Calm Woods is now complete.
2019-03-16 NE Seashore.png (303.03 KiB) Viewed 8238 times
2019-03-16 escape.png
I added some obviously different tiles to large bodies of water. If I ever warp a player into the water and then one of us logs out, they now have a way to escape.
2019-03-16 escape.png (3.26 KiB) Viewed 8238 times
2019-03-16 tunnel.png
A hidden tunnel that acts as a shortcut. Where could it be?
2019-03-16 tunnel.png (116.97 KiB) Viewed 8238 times
Abi's really busy these days, though, so you might not see these maps immediately.

Anyway, I haven't had as much time/energy lately to work on art, so I've mostly just been working on planning classes and skills. Basically, I have a few goals in mind with it:
  • Each class should have a different focus with their build. This is accomplished by assigning 4 primary stats to grow. For example, a dark mage's primary stats might be: M. ATK, Max MP, M. DEF, SPEED. Respectively, those primary stats might increase by these amounts per level: +2, +1.5, +1, +0.5. Anyway, the idea is to see the big picture and ensure that each class has a different build, and also that different classes use different #1 primary stats.
  • Classes should be inherently different in some ways. One idea for this is basically to give each class some forced, non-transferrable passive skills/attributes. Besides varied stat builds, I was thinking about things like small abilities, such as a warrior class having the ability to charge up default attacks to deal more damage, or a hunter class being able to see hidden traps. I was also thinking each class would be strong to one type of monster and weak to another. For example, a quick swordmaster being strong against insect type monsters while being weak against golem types, such as the tumblok.
    tldr: Encourages multiplayer with situations such as a hunter carefully leading a party to avoid traps. Also situations where one player, despite being high level and very powerful, is at a severe disadvantage against certain types of monsters - so it's a good idea for them to have at least one party member who is not weak to that same type of monster.
  • Skills should be designed to be unique across all classes. For example, if a warrior has a skill that deals 2x damage with their normal attack range, no other class would have a skill like that. I'll also be avoiding things like fire/ice/lightning spells that have identical attack ranges with the only difference being elemental implications or status effects. The spells would have to actually be different, such as a straight fireball vs. AoE ice vs. lightning that hits tiles in a zigzag pattern.
  • A class' skillset should follow a theme. An obvious example would be a healer being all about aiding teammates, not really having any way to deal damage on their own. Other examples could include things like a class that moves around a lot and hits enemies quickly; a class that doesn't move much and focuses more on carefully aimed attacks; a class that charges forward and plows down enemies in its path. Basically, different classes should fit different roles, not just have everyone in your party surround a monster and attack it from all 4 sides.
  • Each class should be intended for use with a certain weapon, but not restricted to it. For example, an archer would be intended to use a bow, but they could also use a sword if they wish. The archer's skills would have to be based more on an "archer's ideology" rather than "I have a bow equipped and I shoot things far away". To equip inappropriate weapons, I was thinking the player might need to gain some profiency from another class first, such as reaching lv15 as a warrior before they can use a sword in any other class. Anyway, lots to think about regarding balance with that stuff.
  • Different weapon types should have varied purposes. Rather than every class having a default, 1 tile P. ATK, I was thinking it'd be more interesting if weapons had more differences. For example, a mage staff might hit 2 tiles away with M. ATK damage; a healer's staff might be used to deal small P. ATK damage to enemies while smacking allies heals them instead; a spear might have a P. ATK with 1-2 tile range; a sword might only have 1 tile range, but it could be a little stronger than other weapons. This isn't stats on weapons, though - it's just characteristics of a certain weapon type. That is, all swords might be stronger than all spears, but no sword would be stronger than another sword.
  • Players can choose 1 passive skill, upgradeable to 2 passive skills later on. You'd earn different passive skills from different classes, then equip them as you please. When the player has access to equip 2 passive skills, certain combinations might compliment each other better. Some passive skills might be more situational than others, such as "shortened status ailment durations". Others would be a way to change up your class/gameplay a little, such as "added chance of causing knockback and increased damage with default attacks".
BIG TL;DR: Classes are all being planned at the same time to prevent overlapping skills/playstyle. The end goal is to make your character's combat customization more interesting while also promoting party play. I want classes to actually be different, not just "stand in front of enemy and hit skill hotkeys F2, F3, F4, repeat regardless of class". Ideally, the player should not feel punished for strictly sticking to one class nor mixing and matching skills from various classes - they should both be viable approaches to the game and allow the player to adjust the balance of their role (dealing damage vs. supporting team vs. distracting enemies etc.).




PS: All that wall of text is subject to change
"I'll do the art." ~Danno 2014

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Re: Weekly spoiler

Post by Cevil » Mar 17th, 2019, 1:03 pm

I agree with most of your ideas with classes and skills. Tunnel map is looking good by the way. I'm not sure though if I agree with your idea with no sword being stronger than another sword. So all swords would be the same strength? Am I not understanding fully? Could you please clarify what you meant?


"That is, all swords might be stronger than all spears, but no sword would be stronger than another sword."

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Re: Weekly spoiler

Post by Danno » Mar 17th, 2019, 11:17 pm

Cevil wrote:So all swords would be the same strength? Am I not understanding fully? Could you please clarify what you meant?
Yup, that's exactly what I meant. There's a separate equipment system planned for allowing players to equip their way to higher stats. The idea here is a very strict divide between cosmetics vs. stats. There are really only 2 options:

1) Equipment has stats and changes the appearance of your character. All players will strive to gain the equipment with the highest stats and end up looking exactly the same.

2) Equipment doesn't have stats, it only changes the appearance of your character. Players can look however they want with no penalties. They can set their own goals with what equipment to get.

You can boil that down to whether or not you care about players looking the same. If the end goal of all players is to look the same, then I might as well save everyone the trouble and just not bother making any new equipment. To me, this line of thinking also applies to weapons; even your weapon is part of the way you express yourself through your character. When you bring stats into the equation, there's the right choice (high stats) and the wrong choice (lower stats). Rather than telling players which weapon they should equip, I think it'd be more interesting if they can just be drawn to the one they think looks coolest.

There's a lot of concern over this radical idea, but I think people should ask themselves: what do you even want the stats for?
Take Zelda: Ocarina of Time, for example. There's the Master Sword and the Big Goron's Sword. A one-handed sword and shield vs. a more powerful two-handed sword with longer reach, but no shield. You can clear any dungeon or beat any boss using either sword. That is, the game is designed in such a way that your weapon doesn't matter so much - the scaling stays fairly consistent, yet it remains challenging and engaging right to the end.

It's a game where the players never have to say to the developers "Hey, why can't I get a more powerful sword?" - simply because there is no reason to have a more powerful sword. tldr, I'm aiming for something more along those lines. A game that's fun to play, not a game where you have to grind for better equipment just to survive (rendering all past equipment completely worthless in the process).



(I know Zelda's not an RPG or MMO, but it's a good game, which I think makes it suitable as inspiration for game design. If we wanted a game identical to existing MMORPGs, wouldn't it make more sense to just play those instead?)
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Re: Weekly spoiler

Post by unit » Mar 18th, 2019, 1:48 am

classes sound very interesting, i cant wait to see what you guys come up with, so basic classes would be -
hunter
archer
mage
warrior
healer
????

also the idea of equipment not having stats does concern me abit but you guys havent let us down yet so ill go with it, wonder what you guys will do hmmm

also the light in the new cave map just dosent seem to fit the map? i dunno maybe throw a fire torch or something up there, like who goes yeah bitch lets throw a light on this wall! but thats just me.

great work danno & abi! keep it up guys
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Re: Weekly spoiler

Post by Danno » Mar 19th, 2019, 7:39 am

We don't have support for animated tiles/objects yet, so a torch with a flame that doesn't dance might look worse )-:
But yeah, a torch would look better. I just reused existing graphics to slap this tunnel together for now.
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Re: Weekly spoiler

Post by Danno » Mar 31st, 2019, 2:26 pm

No spoiler for last week or this week. What is this world coming to?! I haven't made anything in the last couple weeks. No graphics, no artwork, no maps, and probably very little on additional planning. I'll just go ahead and spoil my irl circumstances so you guys will know that I'm still motivated to work on the game and do intend to keep working on it.
tldr backstoryShow
So, back in 2012, my brother had a mortgage for a house. Times were quite different back then; his house cost 40k, but a similar house would cost about 200k in today's market. Actually, I think he got the house in 2006 or something and my city's house prices exploded in 2007? Anyway, he wasn't exactly at a responsible point in his life, so he was partying a lot, letting friends couch surf, letting party animal/gangster friends in as roommates. His gangster friends kinda turned on him and refused to contribute to bills/rent. He decided to just walk away from this problem and live as a couch surfer, himself. The bills went up pretty high, then they got cut off due to not being paid. The mortgage was also not paid, so he got a letter telling him the house would be foreclosed. Without power or water, the gangsters eventually left.

The house was trashed, of course. The toilet had some unmentionable contents stewing in it, the toilet also kept running water 24/7, I think the sink was picky about allowing the water to be shut off, doors kicked in, several broken windows, eavestroughs falling off, flies everywhere, miscellaneous bottled piss, graffiti all over the walls, and the place was just generally filthy. On top of that, it seemed my brother and his stoner friends were working on some halfassed renovations thinking they could quickly spruce up a couple things and then sell the house at a profit. That being the case, some of the floors were torn up and there was some really crappy paint job on the interior walls using weird colours like red and royal blue.

Anyway, that foreclosure notice came in 2012. My brother didn't care, but I thought it'd be a terrible waste. The house/apartment rent prices skyrocketed right as I graduated high school, so getting another house wouldn't be a simple matter. In his mortgage contract, there was a part that stated the contract could be terminated at any time if the mortgage was paid in full. His broker was unwilling to let us keep the mortgage going (since they could make at least 100k profit by reclaiming the house and selling it), so I went ahead and stepped up to pay it in full and have the ownership transferred to my name. I'd been saving all my money from work over those 5 years, u c, living a minimalist life without luxuries.

I got the house, but it was a dump. I didn't want to live in a crackhouse, especially if old stoner/gangster folk would drop by looking for a fix, a party, or revenge on my brother. So, it was important to make it look obvious that the house changed ownership. Despite not living in the house, I maintained the place by mowing the front/back yards, chopping down some nuisance trees/shrubs, and shoveling snow off the sidewalk in the winter. I cleaned up a bunch of crap from the yards, just general scraps and garbage, as well as removing 4 non-functional vehicles that were parked in the back yard. I cleaned out the inside, removing old furniture and belongings that were left behind. Some of my brother's acquaintances did drop by on occasion to look for him, but I told them he lost the house.

I wanted to fix the place up a bit, but had to save more money for that since I spent it all paying off the mortgage. Letting some time pass was fine so people would get the idea that my brother and his riffraff no longer occupied the place. tl;dr, my dad and brother both owed me thousands of dollars each and they both have construction experience, so they offered to help fix up the house in return for a forgiven debt. They worked on it at a very casual pace. I also worked on it however I can, usually just clearing out trash/rubble or being there as an extra set of hands. It's mostly been a summer weekend + my irl work vacation time project over the years. My dad uncovered some rotten wood in various areas of the house; he also noted that the house's frame was twisted and that certain walls were leaning out or whatever, so he's been replacing, jacking up, and reinforcing tons of crap. His work is all part of some master plan, I guess, so it's hard to hire someone to jump into the middle of it and take over. He always protests and argues about it when I say I'll have to hire other people if he isn't gonna do it; he always insists that he will work on it and that he'll ensure a good job is done. I know that he does put more care into his work to build strong structural integrity - to the point of overkill. The house's original structure was pretty much a joke, though, so I don't doubt that most other people would probably do a halfassed job.
I've been wasting $840/mo on renting an apartment for too many years, plus $1600 per year on property taxes for a house I can't even use. I saved up more money over the years with careful budgeting, so I decided enough is enough, it's time to hire someone to work on the house seriously. My dad's usual winter job didn't pull through for him, so I thought I'd be a good guy and offer to hire him to treat the house as a dedicated, fulltime job. Rather than just reinforcing the bare essential structural stuff, however, he went crazy with it and reinforced the hell out of everything. This place isn't exactly my dream house, I just wanted it to be livable. He originally told me 2-3 months fulltime should be enough to get it done, now we're entering month #6. It's looking like the structural reinforcement should be close to done, then the rest should probably fall into place more quickly (putting in new doors, windows, bathroom fixtures, kitchen fixtures, plumbing, flooring, drywall, etc.). I'm optimistic this nightmare should be over by the end of April.

By this point, you might think I'd be better off just pawning this house off and getting a mortgage for a new one. This house has cost me close to 100k over the past 7 years, plus about 40k spent on rent. Well, as long as I can end this quickly now, I think I'll be better off than people who pay into a 300k mortgage + interest over a 25-30 year period (both in immediate and longterm financial benefits). That being the case, I've been going to work on the house straight after irl work on most days this past month, plus I work on it over the weekends. It leaves me with little time/energy to work on Re:Spite, unfortunately. My fingers and wrists are also sore from irl work and not being able to just relax and recover over the weekends, which makes it harder to do art.


I absolutely still intend to work on the game, but it's looking like I might need another month before I can work on it regularly again. If you're thinking we should just let another artist on the team right now, that'd be a problem since it would also require my time and attention since I'd have to explain how a lot of things work + ensure our styles are similar enough + write up a proper contract/terms so additional helper(s) know what they're in for and don't feel like they're getting a raw deal. Anyway, sorry for the lack of updates!
"I'll do the art." ~Danno 2014

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